In the most recent NSW Budget Estimates Hearing, the issue of children in detention without access to counselling and education while in their cells was questioned. This video linked here displays Youth Justice Minister Jihad Dib’s response.
The Minister stated “scoping itself also presented—if I’m frank, it was a very, very expensive task”, and “retrofitting would be very difficult” (annexure). However, quotes of $260,000 to install telecommunications into each centre (annexure), is minimal in comparison to the cost of $1.17 million per child per year in detention.
When confronted with these figures and asked where the rise in cost of $300,000 per child per year in the last three years was going, Minister Dib said there had been “a rising cost of all sorts of things,” (annexure).When questioned on why “adults have tablets in their cells but not young people?” Minister Dib responded “probably in terms of priorities in Youth Justice at the moment, that one wouldn’t be it,” (annexure).
Access to telecommunications in cells for youth is particularly important given that most of the children have been expelled from school and have a history of disregarding teachers. When they are out of their cells, they need to run around, burn off energy and play with each other, rather than sitting down to do schoolwork. This means that time alone in their cells is the most suitable time to maintain connections, or pursue interests and education. This time would allow for useful stimulation, especially “considering that access to music and art reduces recidivism by 60%,” (annexure).
Promises had already been made in 2023 by Simone Czech, the Deputy Secretary of the DOJ. She guaranteed the implementation of tablets into youth justice cells by the end of the 2023 financial year by stating “Of course,” (annexure). This raises questions on the handling of funds within the department and the Minister’s misdirected priorities.
Annexed
- Transcript of the Budget Estimates Youth Justice 2026
- Supplementary Questions
- Transcript of Budget Estimates Youth Justice 2023
Annexures
Transcript of Budget Estimates Youth Justice 2026
On 24 February 2026, at Budget Estimates Hearing, the Minister for Youth Justice Mr Jihad Dib, was questioned by the Chair (Emma Hurst, Animal Justice Party), and Sue Higginson (Greens Party).
p.4.8 The CHAIR: Can you provide an update on any progress that’s been happening towards providing access to tablets or computers to young people in their cells across Youth Justice in New South Wales?
p.4.9 Mr JIHAD DIB: We haven’t really progressed it much more than what we spoke about last time, Ms Hurst. … But the scoping itself also presented—if I’m frank, it was a very, very expensive task.It’s not just a matter of, say, putting in a wireless hub somewhere. You’ve got to have all the different security elements. That retrofitting would be very difficult. Again, if I’m being really frank, as I should be, probably in terms of the priorities in Youth Justice at the moment, that one wouldn’t be it.
p.5.1 The CHAIR: Obviously, we’ve got then this situation where, if there is no appetite with the Government to ensure that there is access to tablets in cells for young people—in adult prisons they do have access to tablets within their cells.Obviously, young people are much more vulnerable when they’re within the system. Why do we have, then, this disparity? Why are we allowing adults to have tablets in their cells but not young people?
p.5.2 Mr JIHAD DIB: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t know that it’s in every single one of the adults’ rooms.
p.5.3 The CHAIR: There was some research recently that access to music andart significantly reduced recidivism for young people.In fact, the research suggests that it reduces recidivism by 60 per cent. Is there anything being done there to make sure they have access within their cells, when they are alone, to music and art specifically?
Mr JIHAD DIB: Yes, every Youth Justice centre has a school in it. In the school itself there is actually a music program. I recently—
The CHAIR: Sorry, how would they access that when they’re in their cells on their own?
Mr JIHAD DIB: I could probably take some of that on notice, in terms of whether they can take a particular instrument inside with them and what that instrument might be. You’ve also got to keep in mind that we’ve got to consider possible safety issues. I might leave that for the afternoon for, potentially, one of the Youth Justice officials to consider.
The CHAIR: I’m just trying to understand what they do have access to, rather than the programs within the prisons more generally. My concern is if they don’t have access to cells or if they don’t have access to music and they don’t have access to arts programs while they’re in those cells for 14 hours—they don’t have access to mainstream counselling, cultural and educational services more broadly in those 14 hours. I would have thought that would have been a priority for the Government. I understand that you’re saying that it is an expense to bring Youth Justice centres up to where we have adult services. But given the vulnerability of young people, given the fact that we want to reduce that recidivism and given that we want to make sure—you talked about the risks of having things within the cells. But there is also the other side of it—the psychological risks of not having things like access to counselling services via tablets, for example.
Mr JIHAD DIB: Ms Hurst, I appreciate the spirit with which you come to this, and I thank you for that. Young people do have access to psychological services and counselling services on a regular basis… Youth Justice is piloting the use of iPads by caseworkers and psychologists for intervention in casework with young people. We’re doing those different things—
p.6.1 The CHAIR: Do young people have access to those within their cells during that 14 hours?
Mr JIHAD DIB: That might be a question for this afternoon. They would have access to them, maybe at certain points..
p.17.1 Ms SUE HIGGINSON: Minister Dib, the cost of detention has risen to about—as I understand it— $1.17 million per year, according to the Productivity Commission. So $1.17 million per year, per kid.Could you explain some of the factors that are going to the rising cost? I think three years ago I got a figure of just under $900,000, or just over. We have now got to this radically large figure. What is it?
Mr JIHAD DIB: I can only press upon that in terms of saying that there has been a rising cost of all sorts of things…
Ms SUE HIGGINSON: But what’s the cost? I was hoping you might say, “It’s because we’re investing in all these fabulous, dynamic programs for kids whilst they are in prison.”
Mr JIHAD DIB: I have.
Ms SUE HIGGINSON: But I didn’t hear that. What are the costs?
Mr JIHAD DIB: Let me tell you the great programs that we are doing.
Ms SUE HIGGINSON: I think these are fabulous, but are they costing $300,000 in the last three years in terms of the investment that we’re making?
Mr JIHAD DIB: No, it wouldn’t.
Supplementary Questions: Answers due 26th March 2026.
Supplementary questions were asked by Sue Higginson (Greens MLC) to the Minister for Youth Justice of New South Wales on 24 February 2026. Answers are due on March 26, 2026.
- What progress has been made on your commitment in 2023 to give the children in detention access to external services in the cells where they are held for 14 hours a day? Is there now a proposed timeline?
- What has been done to address the IT infrastructure barriers and security issues which were raised in the 2025 Budget Estimates Hearing?
- Considering that each child in detention costs over $1 million per year, and with disgraceful recidivism rates, isn’t it a significant saving to give each of the six youth justice centres the server and access point infrastructure that adult prisoners have, so they get access to mainstream counselling, cultural and education services? Are you aware that installation quotes of $260,000 per institution were offered.
- Do you agree with the Hon John Dowd AO KC, and the Hon Elizabeth Evatt AC, that internal counselling through Youth Justice is of little use because of counsellors’ conflict of interest with security?
- Do you agree that the ‘import model’ for services would be:
- Effective in providing trusted external counselling without a conflict of interest with a security role.
- Efficient, as they are often already paid for by governments.
- Existing through the sentence and available after release.
- Emotionally important, enabling detainees to feel connected to the outside community.
- How many internal psychologists are you employing? Have you made arrangements for culturally appropriate, trusted, external counsellors by video calls in the cells, considering the effectiveness of this approach especially for young Aboriginal people?
- Considering your acceptance of the success of restorative justice, peer mentoring and education, and in the face of an 85% recidivism rate, isn’t it an urgent matter to deliver these services in the cells where they are for 14 hours a day?
- Considering that access to music and arts reduces recidivismby 60% and the numbers of young people in custody is increasing, what progress has been made to ensure children are receiving proper access to music/tuition through Computers in Cells?
Transcript of Budget Estimates Youth Justice 2023
Agreement to supply computers, 31 October 2023 ~ Budget Estimates Hearing:
Pg. 71.1 Ms SUE HIGGINSON (Greens member): I have a couple of follow-up questions on Youth Justice. Starting with the answer given previously about the failure to install the music and the computers in the youth centres—
MICHAEL TIDBALL (Secretary of DCJ): Failure?
Ms SUE HIGGINSON: Sorry, not having done so.
Pg. 72.1 MICHAEL TIDBALL: Youth Justice currently is in the early stages of looking at scoping a more comprehensive procurement and rollout of iPads, which would be comprehensive, as I understand it, for the entire system for each detainee—to each young person, I should say—to have an iPad.
Ms SUE HIGGINSON: How fast could we do that? …What is actually taking us that time?
MICHAEL TIDBALL: If I may respectfully challenge the proposition that it is taking too long, there are issues of getting the technological solution right. There are issues of training staff. There are issues of procurement.
Pg. 72.2 SIMONE CZECH (Deputy Secretary DOJ): [The programs are] really tailored to the local community, particularly as it related to Aboriginal younger people but also Pasifika young people and making sure that we get their input into what they’d like to do. [They’re] tailored in each centre depending on those local needs, feedback and the voices of young people. To answer your last question about when, it will be this financial year (2023 Financial Year).
SIMONE CZECH: Like the secretary mentioned, we are in a scoping exercise at the moment. Obviously we need to understand logistics, costs, and how we’ll fund that.
Ms SUE HIGGINSON: But we’re looking at this financial year?
SIMONE CZECH: Of course.
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